Curse

Killamus · Jul 29, 2009, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Seriously, that's your discordway?

I'm surprised you actually killed anything, you lost 1/3rd of your main damage for a minimal +1 in death, which doesn't give you an extra minion, only minor damage. There's a lot of healing (Two necro healers?) but healing doesn't kill. You also put rotting flesh (A 3s cast) on a healer/discorder? Why not just bring putrid flesh, if you wanted disease?

With only one damage henchman and maybe 5 skills throughout your hero's bar, I'm seriously wondering how you managed to out-damage this group, especially considering the insane amount of anti condition that the boss has.

I'm also noting a lack of damage reduction skills, i.e. enfeebling blood, meekness, etc. and hexes in general. While, true, you should be supplying the hex most of the time, if you die, your heroes should be able to put out hexes/conditions with ease to meet Discord's requirements. And 66/50% less damage is quite the advantage.

AtomicMew · Jul 29, 2009, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Eh... Gz Jeydra. I still don't know how you did it. You must have had very clean spikes or something, but still, even perfect spikes are only about 450 which isn't enough. And there are multiple rezzers, 3 iirc, but at least 2 for sure (dominator + avenger).

Perhaps RF allowed you to overloaded their condition removal. Perhaps stronger minion wall + more death nova, or maybe more AoE from your henchies.

Thoughts?

I'm going to try it out again later myself

Jeydra · Jul 30, 2009, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

Seriously, that's your discordway?

I'm surprised you actually killed anything, you lost 1/3rd of your main damage for a minimal +1 in death, which doesn't give you an extra minion, only minor damage. There's a lot of healing (Two necro healers?) but healing doesn't kill. You also put rotting flesh (A 3s cast) on a healer/discorder? Why not just bring putrid flesh, if you wanted disease?

With only one damage henchman and maybe 5 skills throughout your hero's bar, I'm seriously wondering how you managed to out-damage this group, especially considering the insane amount of anti condition that the boss has.

I'm also noting a lack of damage reduction skills, i.e. enfeebling blood, meekness, etc. and hexes in general. While, true, you should be supplying the hex most of the time, if you die, your heroes should be able to put out hexes/conditions with ease to meet Discord's requirements. And 66/50% less damage is quite the advantage.

Frankly your post would be a lot more impressive if you weren't impressed by my doing something you didn't think possible ...

Killamus · Jul 31, 2009, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Frankly your post would be a lot more impressive if you weren't impressed by my doing something you didn't think possible ...

Why wouldn't I be impressed? I haven't tried this with my discordway (At least, not without around 30-40DP) but I was merely pointing out oddities in your build. Apparently it works, because you have screen shots. I also never said it was impossible, not even for your build. I merely pointed out (What I believed to be) difficulties in your build.

Jeydra · Jul 31, 2009, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Lol you did say you were surprised I killed anything, and seriously wondered how I outdamaged the group. It's as though you think my build is bad, and yet are surprised that I did manage to clear this mob, which is rather contradictory ...

Anyway. It's entirely possible the build I used was suboptimal. After all, I pulled it off Wiki when Discordway was new and it's largely stayed that way ever since. And since I only play my Elementalist, I don't know what the small differences are likely to be. If you want to discuss the builds, this might not be the right thread - but I'll tell you what I think anyway.

1. Rotting Flesh -> Putrid Flesh I think is a bad change. You want to keep your minions, not destroy them; in any case the Disease lasts shorter.
2. Aura of the Lich has more uses than just +1 to Death Magic and +1 minion. The minion it gives is stronger than those you get from Animate Bone Minions, and you can get minions without first getting bodies - which means you will always have at least a few minions before facing any mob. And of course AotL animates all bodies within earshot. I tried the MM with Jagged Bones instead and although it works I think AotL is superior.
3. The two N/Rt's I find effective. No, they are not complete healers. If the team is taking no damage they can always use Discord (and Rotting Flesh, and Putrid Bile). I prefer to think of them as semi-healers. I won't rely on just the two of them in an 8-man team. 6-man is pushing it but might be doable. 4-man they suffice.
4. Enfeebling Blood / Meekness I don't really like. They're only effective against physicals, and physicals can be dealt with using other methods (Aegis, for example). It's possible that I can't fight the Charr mob toe-to-toe with no minions for long because I don't have Enfeebling Blood, but I doubt it.
5. All the henchmen are semi-defensive. Who isn't? Zho is no damage. Aidan is a rather bad Ranger. Talon and Devona are Warriors, and melee AI is bad. Hertha is semi-defensive and so is Lo Sha. Mhenlo and Lina are Monks. Cynn is already in the team. Who else is there?

Killamus · Jul 31, 2009, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

1. Rotting Flesh -> Putrid Flesh I think is a bad change. You want to keep your minions, not destroy them; in any case the Disease lasts shorter.
2. Aura of the Lich has more uses than just +1 to Death Magic and +1 minion. The minion it gives is stronger than those you get from Animate Bone Minions, and you can get minions without first getting bodies - which means you will always have at least a few minions before facing any mob. And of course AotL animates all bodies within earshot. I tried the MM with Jagged Bones instead and although it works I think AotL is superior.

And this is where our philosophies differ - I believe that minions should be dying as soon as possible - They're there to inflict a very mild amount of damage, take a few hits, then turn into a death nova/dwyana's sorrow. In the case of jagged horrors, inflict conditions for better damage/discord fun.

Quote:

3. The two N/Rt's I find effective. No, they are not complete healers. If the team is taking no damage they can always use Discord (and Rotting Flesh, and Putrid Bile). I prefer to think of them as semi-healers. I won't rely on just the two of them in an 8-man team. 6-man is pushing it but might be doable. 4-man they suffice.
4. Enfeebling Blood / Meekness I don't really like. They're only effective against physicals, and physicals can be dealt with using other methods (Aegis, for example). It's possible that I can't fight the Charr mob toe-to-toe with no minions for long because I don't have Enfeebling Blood, but I doubt it.
5. All the henchmen are semi-defensive. Who isn't? Zho is no damage. Aidan is a rather bad Ranger. Talon and Devona are Warriors, and melee AI is bad. Hertha is semi-defensive and so is Lo Sha. Mhenlo and Lina are Monks. Cynn is already in the team. Who else is there?

Another point we disagree with - In my opinion, heroes are there to do the bulk of the damage, add in skills that the henchmen don't have (And are necessary for the area), and the henchmen are there to (generally) heal/support myself and my heroes. This is why I bring along Cynn, Herta, Mhenlo, and Lina. Cynn for the AoE knockdown (That she generally uses on the last foe) and Herta for minor damage and her wards.

So, I guess we agree to disagree on this point.

banco · Nov 22, 2009, 12:27 PM // 12:27

I've finally done this one as an ele, I had tried the AP ele with discordway but was getting hammered by the groups with dominators in so I thought I'd go as E/R to take frozen soil to stop the rezzers which meant I couldnt go AP so I used what would normally be an awful build and it worked out great.

I used the 3 discordway necros, Mhenlo, Lina, Herta, Cynn and me with:

Glyph of Renewal (e)
YMLaD
PI
Shell shock
Ice spikes
Maelstrom
Ebon Battle Standard of courage
Frozen Soil

I did Against the Charr first which meant there was no Chelsie Flamecaller or whatever he was called in the fort.

My strategy was to take out the groups of Mantids to get a nice supply of minions, place myself in the route of a charr patrol, drop Frozen soil as they were approaching and EBSoC, take down the Dominator which seemed easy especially with Glyph of Renewal and Maelstrom (x2) the rest fell easily.

I was caught out with a group of Mantids joining in with the charr so its a must that you take out out nearby groups first. I was very patient and waited for them to approach me and not go chasing after them, I think its vital that you set yourself up and wait for them to come to you.

I know my build sucks but it worked for me in this instance....

athariel · Nov 22, 2009, 12:40 PM // 12:40

I did that vanq yesterday. my party was:

me, E/A discord caller with GoS meteor shower
3 discord necros from pvx
my friend, D/something tanker dervish (yeah i know, he ran avatar of dwayna, meditation, conviction, vital boon and twin moon sweep ;P0
3 discord necros from pvx

most of the place was easy, hardest was Chelsie Flameshielder group. It took us 20 wipes or something to finally kill the group (you have to kill both Dominator and Avenger before you wipe so that they don't rez). It took us around 1h 20 min

Targren · Dec 15, 2009, 09:51 AM // 09:51

I'm gonna have to try this one again... I did do the mission first, so I didn't have to deal with that #@$! boss, but even discord can't seem to outdamage two prophets (that huge group near the shrine by Ooze pit). That's the one that's creaming me.

The Josip · Jan 18, 2010, 10:23 PM // 22:23

I don't know why is everyone blaming discord for their own failures. Discord can outdamage pretty much everything from what I've seen. Heck, I've seen 4 healers in Sacnoth (one of them boss), get energy drained after prolonged fight and crumbling. I think they were energy drained because they spammed heals and suddenly pretty much nothing.

That being said, I don't use PvX Discord but as usual my variations. It's not a huge difference though. I am a Mesmer primary which I think is best class for Discord (finally something where mesmer excels in PvE). I also don't use YMLD and Finish Him because after a lot of testing I hold those inferior, so my build looks something like this:

* Auspicious Incantation
* Arcane Echo (echoed PvE skill will depend on the situation, and if you don't echo the right one you'll often notice a huge difference)
* EVAS
* AP
* Technobabble (daze mod on spear, so this skill inflicts 7 seconds of AoE daze - ideally, you will use Raptor summon if using any, or if friend is coming along Barrage build will be quite nice; henchman rangers have line of sight problems so not sure about those)
* Pain Inverter (#1 damage skill in the game)
* Unnatural Signet
* Rez / something else

I vanquished all 3 charr areas and overall it was pretty easy, including burning forest.

ps: About Frozen soil mentioned here - I tried that because I thought it's needed. My experience with Frozen soil in a Discord team is so far negative. It's a waste of a skill slot. You're going to be killing faster than they can rez, and I don't even give them a chance to rez. However, if someone is using a different AP caller build, it FS might be needed. I dunno. In my team, it's just a waste of skill slot and attribute points.

Zodiak · Jan 22, 2010, 08:09 PM // 20:09

You could always try with:

Summoning stone
4 real people with 4 asuran summons
1 Spirit Spammer

That should greatly increase your numbers without the need for corpses

Arctica · Jan 25, 2010, 12:44 PM // 12:44

I think Sacnoth Valley and Grothmar are two areas that can be done the easiest way in a team of real ppl. After several failures I joined a group of 2 players: an imba and a ranger, me being a spiritspammer. We used an ER infuser ele hero, a healer and I brought along my 3 necroes with their modified sabway builds.

We did the area much more easier than I expected. When dealing with the charr within their camp, we carefully pulled the different groups and killed Chelsie Flamecaller and her followers relatively fast.

Life Bringing · Jan 25, 2010, 11:35 PM // 23:35

While i wasn't running discord, i must say that the monk boss is piss easy with Earthshaker. The mob took me less than 20 seconds to kill.